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Topic: What we would have lost

We hear about what we lost. Did anybody think about what we would have lost if the Manifesta project went ahead as per the plan?

We would have lost our case against Turkey (please i am not talking about Turkish Cypriots here, so i do not want everybody to jump in).

Turkey for 32 years has been limiting access to the north. Even down right prohibiting it for the first 30. When Cyprus was accepted in the EU, suddenly (or just before then), the borders opened. Opened in what way though?
Whoever wishes to pass needs to show a passport.
pay a tariff.
if you pass with a car you even need to pay car insurance to the insurance company owned by Denktash.

I can understand the Turkish Cypriots frustrations regarding the cancellation of Manifesta but this feeling, i may assure you is in the Greek Cypriot community too.

I believe that the NFA made the right choice.

It is easy for non Cypriots not to understand the situation here.

It is easy for Turkish Cypriots to blame the Greek Cypriots.

But I do not think that it was easy for the NFA to reach to a decision like the one they did.

What the international community is yet to understand is that the problem is not between the Turkish and the Greek Cypriots (those problems we had faded into history). The problem is between Cyprus (and i include all communities in the island) and Turkey.

So what we would have lost is our case against turkey. As Helene Black rightly states in her post. The political situation here >>transcends the autonomy of curators and organisers<<. And no exhibition small or large has the right to ignore the resolutions by the united nations and the international court of human rights regarding the case for Cyprus.

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Re: What we would have lost

Are the requirements for passage from the North to the South the same as from the South to the North?   
Does the insurance that you mention have a time limit?
Can a person leave the city of Nicosia in the South/North and return to the opposite side with fewer problems (meaning: is the border less strict outside the actual city?)
How many places can a person physically cross the between the two sides, legally?

Thanks,
Aaron M. Ryan
amrphoto1@gmail.com
415-341-6678

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Re: What we would have lost

Petros,

How much communication is there between artists and intellectuals, Turkish and Greek Cypriots? What is the discussion like? Is there potential for collaboration art or otherwise as a means for challenging the divisions? Coming from the US, all of the varied responses I've read here don't seem unusual, but unless one visits Cyprus, the knowledge of how difficult it is to travel and exist is all based on hearsay and online communication.

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Re: What we would have lost

I agree that going there is a necessary means of both connecting to individuals within Nicosia and answering many of the questions about particular aspects of life, and opening new horizons for new questions.

My thoughts right now are focused mainly on the pragmatics of mobility as they are either codified by the two governments or how they are generally enforced within the various areas of Nicosia/Cyprus--on the ground level.

Are there loopholes that are exploited by local individuals regularly enough that they can become safe passages for discreet new comers.

I have found the "Government of the Republic of Cyprus" stance on passports, as published at the website:
http://www.learn4good.com/travel/cyprus_visa.htm

I am currently searching for the "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus'," version of such.

Another interesting question that might lead to avenues of mobility is the question of business. Is there anyone currently conducting business, either municipal or private, across the border and how have they solved or otherwise dealt with this issue?

I will continue to research these questions.

Thanks,
Aaron M. Ryan
415-341-6678
amrphoto1@gmail.com

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Re: What we would have lost

TRNC is only recognised by Turkey. The TC passport cannot travel anywhere. TCs have to use either a Republic of Cyprus passport or a Turkish one to travel abroad. (I know this used to be the case and please do correct me if this is no longer the case).

The only legal points of entering Cyprus is the points offered by the Republic of Cyprus. (Having said that the only country which might take legal action against you if you entered through the North is the Republic of Cyprus).

I agree with Petros when he said about no movement before 2003.

"Denktash reacted to the protests in April last year [2003] by making travel easier from the north. Afterwards, the situation was temporarily more relaxed. Since then, more than 5,000 Turks have been able to cross the border to work in the Greek south of the island. To be able to pass through the checkpoints, they have to apply for a passport from the Greek Cypriot government, to qualify as citizens of the Republic of Cyprus. More than 60,000 Turks are thought to have obtained such a passport."

Quote form: http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/jan20 … -j13.shtml

A note on the quote: Only verified Turkish Cypriots were allowed and were granted the Republic of Cyprus passport

Before 2003 the Republic of Cyprus accepted movement from/to the North but it was the 'TRNC' which did not. It was the accession of Cyprus to the EU and the prospects of a better (European) future for TCs which I believe forced the administration in the North to amend their policy.

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Re: What we would have lost

Aaron M. Ryan wrote:

Are the requirements for passage from the North to the South the same as from the South to the North?

Movement of people is not restricted by the Greek side from South to the North. On entering the North, however, a passport has to be shown, a fact strongly contested by the Republic of Cyprus.
Only people who legally entered Cyprus are allowed entrance to the South from the North. How this is achieved I am not certain as I was never asked for a passport in the South but I always need to show my passport both in entering and leaving the North.

Does the insurance that you mention have a time limit?

Time limits are stipulated by the administration in the north and they are stipulated on the 'visa'. As a Greek Cypriot, visiting the North, I get a 'visa' lasting a day. The car insurance lasts for a day. Having said that they also offer visas and insurance which lasts longer, but not for a year. It used to be the case that if a Greek Cypriot stayed for longer than a day, they were not allowed to stay in a friend's house but they had to 'legally' stay in a hotel, but again, I am not certain how this was enforced and if it is still a requirement by the Turkish administration.

Can a person leave the city of Nicosia in the South/North and return to the opposite side with fewer problems (meaning: is the border less strict outside the actual city?)

How many places can a person physically cross the between the two sides, legally?

There are only 5 entry/exit points all stipulated by the Turkish administration. Two of them are in Nicosia. All points have the same 'requirements'.

Elaine Angelopoulos wrote:

How much communication is there between artists and intellectuals, Turkish and Greek Cypriots? What is the discussion like? Is there potential for collaboration art or otherwise as a means for challenging the divisions? Coming from the US, all of the varied responses I've read here don't seem unusual, but unless one visits Cyprus, the knowledge of how difficult it is to travel and exist is all based on hearsay and online communication.

There is bi-communal communication between all professions. There is also a bi-communal architectural master plan for Nicosia. The great point of contest currently, is the demand by the Turkish administration to check passports and to issue 'visas'. This was reportedly the main reason Manifesta was cancelled by the NFA.

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Re: What we would have lost

Yiannis,


Do you have any long term friendships/relationships with persons in the north?  If so, how do you manage communications and visitation?  If the legal stipulations for overnight stay in the north prohibit staying with friends and limit a person to "hotels,"  is there a way to register or otherwise convert family residences into "hotels"?

How thoroughly are "hotels" researched by border officials?

Best Regards,
Aaron M. Ryan
415-341-6678
amrphoto1@gmail.com

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Re: What we would have lost

Aaron M. Ryan wrote:

Yiannis,
Do you have any long term friendships/relationships with persons in the north?

Yes I do have Turkish Cypriot friends, some of which live in the North and some in the South

If so, how do you manage communications and visitation?

Before 2003 there was a limited number of what we believe them to be as monitored telephone channels which allowed partial, always interrupted communication, After 2003 I can call my friends by dialing the Turkish country code and their number.

If the legal stipulations for overnight stay in the north prohibit staying with friends and limit a person to "hotels,"  is there a way to register or otherwise convert family residences into "hotels"?

I have never stayed in the North as distances in Cyprus are small enough for me to return home after the visit. Regarding your question, it will be best answered by a Turkish Cypriot.

How thoroughly are "hotels" researched by border officials?

As I have written before,  am not certain how this is enforced. Maybe somebody either here or in the official forum might tell us on their experiences regarding this matter.

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Re: What we would have lost

Yiannis,

Yes..this would be invaluable information.  If there is anyone who can attest to the "verification process" at the border?  What exactly does it include?  How consistent  are the manners/ways in which it is carried out?

In the official forum at manifest.org, a person called Ahmet relayed that extended stays in the North were common, but somehow made difficult.  This point was a little vague...can anyone help clarify?


Best Regards,
Aaron M. Ryan
415-341-6678
amrphoto1@gmail.com

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Re: What we would have lost

petros, what are you talking about? greek cypriots would have lost their case against turkey if a part of an art show took place in the turkish cypriot community? do you even realize how silly this sounds?

by the way do you know that your Ministry of Culture and Education is funding an artist residency program for Greek Cypriots in Istanbul? There is currently a Greek Cypriot artist from Limassol working at the Platform Garanti Contemporary Art Center, paid for by your government. Why is it ok for Republic of Cyprus to fund cultural production in Istanbul but prohibit this in the turkish community on Cyprus, the community you claim you have no problems with as all the tensions "faded into history", as you say.

please explain why is it that your government is seeking to establish commercial links with turkey by asking it to open ports and airspace to greek cypriot traffic while denying this to turkish cypriots at home? it really looks like its not turkey who your government sees as the enemy (you don't solicit trade with enemies, right?), but its the community right under your nose.

i wish you were just a bit more analytical about these things, it just sounds like you believe everything you see on tv.